Ideal timing for buying a house | dstill.ai shared chat

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Think About 20 Years From Now, Not 20 Minutes From Now

(someone): Is that what I'm hearing?

(someone): Well, basically, long story short, Uh, I was renting from my employer, um, which is also my brother-in-law and I'm sorry.

(someone): That sounds like a horrible situation, but keep going.

(someone): It's not a horrible situation, but, um, basically they offered to finance a house for me, um, because I wanted to put that money towards a house versus just renting. And so they, I didn't have anything to put down, so they financed it 100%, and it's at 7% interest. So basically, I was able- What's the payment? The payment's $1,100.

(someone): And how much do you make every month?

(someone): Right now, my bring home is $36.

(someone): Yeah. Yeah, you're gonna feel that. Yeah. You're gonna feel that. So- Yeah. here's what we need to do. If we need to, if we're going to make this work longterm, cause it's in the house is still in your name, right? They just gave you the money for the down payment, right? Correct. Okay. If you're going to make this work long haul, we need to get this to where it's no more than 25%. Right. Just so you can breathe. Do you have any other debt?

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Think About 20 Years From Now, Not 20 Minutes From Now

The Ramsey Show

Dave Ramsey: Heat and air will go out. The water heater will go out and the roof will leak. The first week you move in this house with a bunch of debt, don't do that. You're going to get yourself in a pinch. You're, you're a broke college student, brand new married, brand new baby on the way. You're at the broke end of life. It's the most broke you'll ever be. Right now, it'll be nothing but better from here. You'll have better incomes from here, better situation from here, so renting for the next little while is, the babies don't take up much room, they're small, and renting for a little while while you guys get your mess cleaned up that you've made and then have a solid foundation to buy, the home will be a blessing for you and not a curse if you'll do that. It is not popular among your friends for me to tell you that, but I don't really care what your friends think. They're broke and you don't want to take financial advice from broke people. So, uh, the, the, the, the risk that you are adding mathematically to your life by adding a house to a new baby and to a big old pile of debt, this spells stress, anxiety, problems in relationships. Don't do it. Please keep your life calm and simple. Get out. Both of you get a job. Both of you work your tail off. Smile about the time that we had to eat broke people food and drive broke people cars. Yeah.

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Think About 20 Years From Now, Not 20 Minutes From Now

The Ramsey Show

(someone): I'm excited for you guys. I want you to have a house. I want you to have all those things, but I want you to have them the right way so they don't have you, right? So first, first things first, hey, I'm just going to walk the baby steps on this. Are you familiar with that at all?

(someone): A little bit.

(someone): Okay, so this is going to be the fastest, as Dave would say, the cleanest way for you to not only pay off your debt, save up the money you need, and eventually build wealth. So there's a framework here. It involves paying off your debt first before purchasing a home. And the reason for that is, A, your income right now is tied up in your student, it's going to be tied up in your student loans, it's tied up in your car, and we want to free that up so that you're able to save the down payment you want, you're able to get the house that you truly want, right? Make sense?

Dave Ramsey: Rent is a great deal short-term. It's a horrible deal long-term. So I agree with you, you don't want to do it long-term, but short-term, if you buy a house with this much debt, you have to buy an extra bedroom for Sally Mae. because you, you know, she's still living with you and you need to kick the old woman out for you by house because it's going to strain you. Heat and air will go out. The water heater will go out and the roof will leak.

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Think About 20 Years From Now, Not 20 Minutes From Now

The Ramsey Show

Dave Ramsey: Okay, subprime lending. One way they calculate it is, you ask them, what's your loan balance? And the way they keep the loan balance on the books is called T.O.P., Total of Payments, which is a total of all your payments over the whole time, including the ridiculous butt interest rate that they're charging you. That is $20,000. You do not owe $20,000 on the car, though. That's just if you pay every payment and add them all together. That's a TOP calculation and that's the account balance that is different than the payoff balance. Now in a regular car loan, they're the same thing. Payoff and the account are the same thing. They just keep your account balance, your principal balance is all they give you. But on a rip-off loan, on a subprime loan, they'll put it on the books as a T.O.P. And what that does is it takes all your hope away and you feel stuck, which is why you called. So the good news is the payoff on that car is, what's the interest rate, 17, 15?

(someone): I think it's like 23.

Dave Ramsey: Yeah, okay, good. So that's even better news because that means that the 20 includes all that. Okay. So that tells me the payoff on this car is probably closer to 10. Really? Yeah. Yeah.

(someone): So if you just call them and say, I want to know.

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Think About 20 Years From Now, Not 20 Minutes From Now

The Ramsey Show

(someone): Hey Dave.

Dave Ramsey: How can we help?

(someone): Yeah, uh, my wife and I, um, are going to be expecting a baby in March. Congratulations. Thank you. Uh, we are trying to find something a little bit more suitable, um, for living. Um, and with the high costs of rent, we were thinking about potentially getting a house, um, so that the mortgage is usually roughly about the same or a little less.

(someone): Do you guys have any debt?

(someone): Yeah, I'm currently a student. I'm in my last year of school and I've had to pay my way through and I'm about 61 in student loans and then she had a car that she had bought after she graduated a few years ago, which is at 18. What's your degree in? My degree is math education.

Dave Ramsey: What are you going to do, teach? Yep. What will a math teacher make?

(someone): Usually starting, it depends on the school district, anywhere from 40 to 50.

(someone): What about your wife?

(someone): She currently makes 51.

(someone): Okay, and she's done with school?

(someone): Yes, she's done with school and she's working currently.

(someone): And what is her profession?

(someone): Art teacher, so a couple of teachers.

(someone): Okay, look, congratulations on the baby coming. I'm excited for you guys. I want you to have a house.

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Think About 20 Years From Now, Not 20 Minutes From Now

The Ramsey Show

(someone): Correct.

Dave Ramsey: Okay. Well then sell the rental, pay off your house, pay that, pay the 65, throw the rest of it at the California. Then when you retire, sell your house and pay your house off in California.

(someone): That ain't bad.

Dave Ramsey: That gets us there.

(someone): Yeah. Took a minute. It took a minute. Part of me is like, OK, this first if she's still got two years, she could possibly let it accumulate a little bit more value for two years before she sells it right before she goes to California. I mean, it's it's not a lot, but it just saying, you know, trying to get this money.

Dave Ramsey: That would work too. She's tired of it.

(someone): I'm tired of talking about it. Let it go.

Dave Ramsey: This is the Ramsey Show. Hey, Ramsey Podcast listeners, if you love the show and want to take a deeper dive, check out our free weekly email newsletter. It's full of trending, helpful articles and tips to keep you motivated to win with your money, relationships, and career, from the best side hustles to how to make friends as an adult. Get what you need to thrive, delivered straight to your inbox. Just go to ramsysolutions.com slash newsletter today to sign up. That's ramsysolutions.com slash newsletter. Jade Walshall, Ramsey Personality is my co-host today.

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Think About 20 Years From Now, Not 20 Minutes From Now

The Ramsey Show

(someone): Hey Dave.

Dave Ramsey: How can we help?

(someone): Yeah, uh, my wife and I, um, are going to be expecting a baby in March. Congratulations. Thank you. Uh, we are trying to find something a little bit more suitable, um, for living. Um, and with the high costs of rent, we were thinking about potentially getting a house, um, so that the mortgage is usually roughly about the same or a little less.

(someone): Do you guys have any debt?

(someone): Yeah, I'm currently a student. I'm in my last year of school and I've had to pay my way through and I'm about 61 in student loans and then she had a car that she had bought after she graduated a few years ago, which is at 18. What's your degree in? My degree is math education.

Dave Ramsey: What are you going to do, teach? Yep. What will a math teacher make?

(someone): Usually starting, it depends on the school district, anywhere from 40 to 50.

(someone): What about your wife?

(someone): She currently makes 51.

(someone): Okay, and she's done with school?

(someone): Yes, she's done with school and she's working currently.

(someone): And what is her profession?

(someone): Art teacher, so a couple of teachers.

(someone): Okay, look, congratulations on the baby coming. I'm excited for you guys. I want you to have a house.

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Think About 20 Years From Now, Not 20 Minutes From Now

The Ramsey Show

Dave Ramsey: You're 62. You owe what on your current home?

(someone): Um, I, uh, um, well, I, I made another mistake. I bought a, uh, property where I'm going to retire someday. And I know that's not something that you're fond of. Um, so, but I, and I owe three 95 on that. The house I live in, I owe 40 on, and then the other rental property, I owe zero on it. It's free and clear.

Dave Ramsey: Okay. The house you owe 40 hours worth, the house you owe 40 hours worth what?

(someone): It's about worth $425.

Dave Ramsey: Okay. And the house that you owe $395 on is located where?

(someone): It's in California. It's worth $800.

Dave Ramsey: Okay. And no one lives in it? No one lives in it?

(someone): Yes. It's rented.

Dave Ramsey: Oh, it's rented. Okay. So you have two rental properties. One of them you intend to retire in?

(someone): Correct.

Dave Ramsey: And when do you intend to retire?

(someone): That all depends on how you help me with this question. Probably within two to three years.

(someone): Okay.

(someone): It'll be partial retirement.

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Think About 20 Years From Now, Not 20 Minutes From Now

The Ramsey Show

(someone): It's just me and my kids and I rent. And my rent's probably like $1,200. So $1,200 rent. I want to know, are you getting a tax return every year? A little bit. I've, uh, I've adjusted that, uh, to not get one. Cause I have been, uh, trying to get out of this mess since I've known it, that it was mess. And I've kind of listened a lot to Dave Ramsey and I bought the total total money makeover. And I was like, Oh my gosh, this is such a light to my eyes and I feel so much less stressed. So I have adjusted that, uh, to make sure I do get, if I do get anything, it's very minimal. so I can make sure I can pay my bills.

(someone): And how many hours a week are you working?

(someone): I work, um, 80 and if they offer overtime, I am the first one to volunteer. You work 80? Well, $40. I'm 40 hours. Okay. Okay. That's okay.

(someone): I was about to say we need a different job if that's what it's getting you. Um, But at 40, and I know you've got the kids, it sounds like you've got some family in the area that'll help you. You gotta, at this point, it's an equation, right?

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Think About 20 Years From Now, Not 20 Minutes From Now

The Ramsey Show

Dave Ramsey: So, you know, it's just a matter of when you pay the 65, not if.

(someone): Right. Well, I mean, I could 1031 exchange it forever, but I'm tired of tenants, toilets and trash, quite frankly.

Dave Ramsey: Yeah. And I, and I don't, and I want your, I want your California house paid off and it's not paid off with the sale of your personal residence.

(someone): Correct.

Dave Ramsey: So I got to get there. And so since I got to get there, I got to sell the rental. Now or when you retire and move to California. I'm catching on now. I'm seeing the scrambled eggs. Okay. So yeah, go ahead and sell it just cause you're going to sell it anyway. Okay. Don't give it away. There's no rush. There's no, I was going to say, if you don't pay off the 40, have you got enough in the bank to pay off your house?

(someone): No, not right this moment.

Dave Ramsey: You don't have 40,000 bucks laying around.

(someone): Well, I do, but I can do it.

Dave Ramsey: Uncle Sam. It's for uncle Sam. It's your quarterlies, but you don't have, you don't have any, you don't have any other non-retirement investments laying around. You can just knock your house out.

(someone): Correct.

Dave Ramsey: Okay.

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Think About 20 Years From Now, Not 20 Minutes From Now

The Ramsey Show

Dave Ramsey: At the SBA loan is in both of your names.

(someone): Yes, sir. Now, he's offered to take it, the debt, but I don't know exactly how, like you said, I'm not really sure.

Dave Ramsey: Same thing. It has your name on it. He can take it, but if he doesn't refinance it and get your name off of it and doesn't pay it for some reason, let's say he gets in trouble in business or gets an IRS lien or something that even he didn't see coming, okay? You're going to end up holding the bag on these investment properties, this SBA loan, this car. if he's supposed to take them, unquote, quote, unquote. So and divorce attorneys don't do a good job of explaining that to people. mm-hmm so they oftentimes oftentimes just split things up and they go well he's got the car and I got this investment house and he's still on the investment house that you got you know and he still got you know if you screw it up he's to he's baked then so you said there's a lot of assets yeah what kind of cash do you guys yeah really well so we we did make a nice proceeds from the sale of our primary home we split those that was about

(someone): $320,000 each. Okay, so those those monies were split and they were there's a legal word for them partitioned. Okay, so normally the lawyers advise not to buy new homes in the middle of a divorce, right? Community property, but we signed documents that the funds were partitioned.

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Think About 20 Years From Now, Not 20 Minutes From Now

The Ramsey Show

Dave Ramsey: Yeah, you pay that house off. But you've got $528,000 laying there now, and you've got another $200,000 almost laying there from the partition, and you've got the equities from the rentals, I don't even know what they are, minus the debts. I mean the prices of the rentals minus the debts minus the taxes due because of the sale minus the SBA loan minus paying off his car and then the only thing left is divide up that cash and the 401ks against each other.

(someone): That ain't bad.

Dave Ramsey: And it's just, it's clean walking. And if you want to buy some rentals, you know, after you finish crying and being mad and all the stuff that goes with this, then go get you a rental later. But who, you know, you got plenty of money. You're, you're both going to walk out of this millionaire as I'm guessing. That's what it sounds like. And I know you are, for sure, with the inheritance. And you've got a good client base, you're confident in your career steps, you've got a good, solid place for healing and a fresh start. I'm so sorry. That's a lot of loss. I really wouldn't try to keep my finances in the past. while I'm trying to live a future.

(someone): I don't know why the lawyers wouldn't suggest that.

Dave Ramsey: Are they just bozos? They don't take into consideration these contingent liabilities because they don't have to deal with it five years from now.

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Think About 20 Years From Now, Not 20 Minutes From Now

The Ramsey Show

(someone): Okay, so normally the lawyers advise not to buy new homes in the middle of a divorce, right? Community property, but we signed documents that the funds were partitioned. Of that $328,000, the loan I was able to get by just barely only allowed me to put down $140,000. So I still have the rest of that cash untouched in a bank account that I would like to put down towards my current home. I also received a large inheritance. Unfortunately, it's been a heck of a couple of years. Both my parents passed and lost two years.

(someone): Sorry about that. Yeah.

(someone): So, um, I received inheritance of $528,000. Um, and it's in a separate account as well. Untouched. It's just been sitting there.

Dave Ramsey: Um, let me, let me, let me propose something really weird. It may throw a monkey wrench in the middle of your negotiations. I would propose selling the three rental houses, paying off the SBA and paying off the house and splitting the cash.

(someone): I love that. Mm.

Dave Ramsey: Paying off the car, I'm sorry. Paying off the car, paying off the SBA loan, getting rid of the three rentals, and then you just walk away with a pile of cash, he walks away with a pile of cash.

(someone): Yeah, because what would have been the plan with the rentals?

Dave Ramsey: That you each just get a piece of it? I'm guessing you guys were getting ready to split those up, weren't you?

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The Ramsey Show

(someone): Okay.

(someone): It'll be partial retirement. I'll never completely retire. I'm your age. I don't, I'm not ready to retire just yet.

Dave Ramsey: Okay. That's fine. I just, I'm trying to figure out the timing on this. So why California? Why Northern California?

(someone): Um, Actually, I have family there and I would like to be near a body of water. I've been landlocked my entire life and I'm also tired of the cold.

Dave Ramsey: Okay. So this is near the ocean.

(someone): Correct.

Dave Ramsey: Like Sonoma or something like that.

(someone): Ooh, that's nice. Well, it's actually Southern California.

Dave Ramsey: Oh, Southern.

(someone): I thought you said Northern. That's still very nice. Okay. I might have because I am a little nervous.

Dave Ramsey: That's okay. That's okay. Um,

(someone): Is it your work that's preventing you from... What's the... I'm sorry, go ahead. Mike, I'm looking at these numbers and I'm like, okay, you want to be in Southern California, you've got a rental that's free and clear that you don't want to pay the IRS debt on, you've got a home worth $40,000, or that you owe $40,000, worth $425,000.

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Think About 20 Years From Now, Not 20 Minutes From Now

The Ramsey Show

Dave Ramsey: Yeah, you pay that house off. But you've got $528,000 laying there now, and you've got another $200,000 almost laying there from the partition, and you've got the equities from the rentals, I don't even know what they are, minus the debts. I mean the prices of the rentals minus the debts minus the taxes due because of the sale minus the SBA loan minus paying off his car and then the only thing left is divide up that cash and the 401ks against each other.

(someone): That ain't bad.

Dave Ramsey: And it's just, it's clean walking. And if you want to buy some rentals, you know, after you finish crying and being mad and all the stuff that goes with this, then go get you a rental later. But who, you know, you got plenty of money. You're, you're both going to walk out of this millionaire as I'm guessing. That's what it sounds like. And I know you are, for sure, with the inheritance. And you've got a good client base, you're confident in your career steps, you've got a good, solid place for healing and a fresh start. I'm so sorry. That's a lot of loss. I really wouldn't try to keep my finances in the past. while I'm trying to live a future.

(someone): I don't know why the lawyers wouldn't suggest that.

Dave Ramsey: Are they just bozos? They don't take into consideration these contingent liabilities because they don't have to deal with it five years from now.

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Think About 20 Years From Now, Not 20 Minutes From Now

The Ramsey Show

Dave Ramsey: Heat and air will go out. The water heater will go out and the roof will leak. The first week you move in this house with a bunch of debt, don't do that. You're going to get yourself in a pinch. You're, you're a broke college student, brand new married, brand new baby on the way. You're at the broke end of life. It's the most broke you'll ever be. Right now, it'll be nothing but better from here. You'll have better incomes from here, better situation from here, so renting for the next little while is, the babies don't take up much room, they're small, and renting for a little while while you guys get your mess cleaned up that you've made and then have a solid foundation to buy, the home will be a blessing for you and not a curse if you'll do that. It is not popular among your friends for me to tell you that, but I don't really care what your friends think. They're broke and you don't want to take financial advice from broke people. So, uh, the, the, the, the risk that you are adding mathematically to your life by adding a house to a new baby and to a big old pile of debt, this spells stress, anxiety, problems in relationships. Don't do it. Please keep your life calm and simple. Get out. Both of you get a job. Both of you work your tail off. Smile about the time that we had to eat broke people food and drive broke people cars. Yeah.

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Think About 20 Years From Now, Not 20 Minutes From Now

The Ramsey Show

(someone): My CPA estimates that that's about what I'll owe cause I've had it for 20 years and then that in my income, I guess.

Dave Ramsey: Okay, so the big concern number one is debt-free is the shortest distance to wealth. Concern number two is when you retire, a paid-for property that you live in is essential for stability because it's your largest item. And if you retire at 65 years old and you live to 95, you've got 30 years of rent increases. You know this is a real estate agent. You do not want to be a renter for the next 30 years or a have a mortgage, you want a paid-for piece of real estate that you live in at retirement. So these are our goals. So you're going to sell this rental. It's just a matter of when.

(someone): Correct. I'm going to sell it regardless because it's 40 years old and it's time to go back to the universe.

Dave Ramsey: So I would end up buying like a little condo or something. You're going to sell it when you move to California and you retire and you sell the house you live in. Or you're going to sell it now and reduce the mortgage, pay off the little $40,000 mortgage, reduce the other mortgage, finish that California mortgage off when you retire and sell the house you live in, right? So it doesn't matter. You're going to sell this. You're not going to keep it 25 years. So, you know, it's just a matter of when you pay the 65, not if.

(someone): Right.

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Think About 20 Years From Now, Not 20 Minutes From Now

The Ramsey Show

(someone): My CPA estimates that that's about what I'll owe cause I've had it for 20 years and then that in my income, I guess.

Dave Ramsey: Okay, so the big concern number one is debt-free is the shortest distance to wealth. Concern number two is when you retire, a paid-for property that you live in is essential for stability because it's your largest item. And if you retire at 65 years old and you live to 95, you've got 30 years of rent increases. You know this is a real estate agent. You do not want to be a renter for the next 30 years or a have a mortgage, you want a paid-for piece of real estate that you live in at retirement. So these are our goals. So you're going to sell this rental. It's just a matter of when.

(someone): Correct. I'm going to sell it regardless because it's 40 years old and it's time to go back to the universe.

Dave Ramsey: So I would end up buying like a little condo or something. You're going to sell it when you move to California and you retire and you sell the house you live in. Or you're going to sell it now and reduce the mortgage, pay off the little $40,000 mortgage, reduce the other mortgage, finish that California mortgage off when you retire and sell the house you live in, right? So it doesn't matter. You're going to sell this. You're not going to keep it 25 years. So, you know, it's just a matter of when you pay the 65, not if.

(someone): Right.

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Think About 20 Years From Now, Not 20 Minutes From Now

The Ramsey Show

(someone): Is that what I'm hearing?

(someone): Well, basically, long story short, Uh, I was renting from my employer, um, which is also my brother-in-law and I'm sorry.

(someone): That sounds like a horrible situation, but keep going.

(someone): It's not a horrible situation, but, um, basically they offered to finance a house for me, um, because I wanted to put that money towards a house versus just renting. And so they, I didn't have anything to put down, so they financed it 100%, and it's at 7% interest. So basically, I was able- What's the payment? The payment's $1,100.

(someone): And how much do you make every month?

(someone): Right now, my bring home is $36.

(someone): Yeah. Yeah, you're gonna feel that. Yeah. You're gonna feel that. So- Yeah. here's what we need to do. If we need to, if we're going to make this work longterm, cause it's in the house is still in your name, right? They just gave you the money for the down payment, right? Correct. Okay. If you're going to make this work long haul, we need to get this to where it's no more than 25%. Right. Just so you can breathe. Do you have any other debt?

20

Think About 20 Years From Now, Not 20 Minutes From Now

The Ramsey Show

Dave Ramsey: You're 62. You owe what on your current home?

(someone): Um, I, uh, um, well, I, I made another mistake. I bought a, uh, property where I'm going to retire someday. And I know that's not something that you're fond of. Um, so, but I, and I owe three 95 on that. The house I live in, I owe 40 on, and then the other rental property, I owe zero on it. It's free and clear.

Dave Ramsey: Okay. The house you owe 40 hours worth, the house you owe 40 hours worth what?

(someone): It's about worth $425.

Dave Ramsey: Okay. And the house that you owe $395 on is located where?

(someone): It's in California. It's worth $800.

Dave Ramsey: Okay. And no one lives in it? No one lives in it?

(someone): Yes. It's rented.

Dave Ramsey: Oh, it's rented. Okay. So you have two rental properties. One of them you intend to retire in?

(someone): Correct.

Dave Ramsey: And when do you intend to retire?

(someone): That all depends on how you help me with this question. Probably within two to three years.

(someone): Okay.

(someone): It'll be partial retirement.

21

Think About 20 Years From Now, Not 20 Minutes From Now

The Ramsey Show

(someone): Hey Dave.

Dave Ramsey: How can we help?

(someone): Yeah, uh, my wife and I, um, are going to be expecting a baby in March. Congratulations. Thank you. Uh, we are trying to find something a little bit more suitable, um, for living. Um, and with the high costs of rent, we were thinking about potentially getting a house, um, so that the mortgage is usually roughly about the same or a little less.

(someone): Do you guys have any debt?

(someone): Yeah, I'm currently a student. I'm in my last year of school and I've had to pay my way through and I'm about 61 in student loans and then she had a car that she had bought after she graduated a few years ago, which is at 18. What's your degree in? My degree is math education.

Dave Ramsey: What are you going to do, teach? Yep. What will a math teacher make?

(someone): Usually starting, it depends on the school district, anywhere from 40 to 50.

(someone): What about your wife?

(someone): She currently makes 51.

(someone): Okay, and she's done with school?

(someone): Yes, she's done with school and she's working currently.

(someone): And what is her profession?

(someone): Art teacher, so a couple of teachers.

(someone): Okay, look, congratulations on the baby coming. I'm excited for you guys. I want you to have a house.

22

Think About 20 Years From Now, Not 20 Minutes From Now

The Ramsey Show

(someone): My CPA estimates that that's about what I'll owe cause I've had it for 20 years and then that in my income, I guess.

Dave Ramsey: Okay, so the big concern number one is debt-free is the shortest distance to wealth. Concern number two is when you retire, a paid-for property that you live in is essential for stability because it's your largest item. And if you retire at 65 years old and you live to 95, you've got 30 years of rent increases. You know this is a real estate agent. You do not want to be a renter for the next 30 years or a have a mortgage, you want a paid-for piece of real estate that you live in at retirement. So these are our goals. So you're going to sell this rental. It's just a matter of when.

(someone): Correct. I'm going to sell it regardless because it's 40 years old and it's time to go back to the universe.

Dave Ramsey: So I would end up buying like a little condo or something. You're going to sell it when you move to California and you retire and you sell the house you live in. Or you're going to sell it now and reduce the mortgage, pay off the little $40,000 mortgage, reduce the other mortgage, finish that California mortgage off when you retire and sell the house you live in, right? So it doesn't matter. You're going to sell this. You're not going to keep it 25 years. So, you know, it's just a matter of when you pay the 65, not if.

(someone): Right.