Dave Ramsey on FIRE movement | dstill.ai shared chat

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Dave Reacts to the F.I.R.E. Movement (Hour 3)

Dave Ramsey: Michael's in Cincinnati. Michael, what's up? Um, how are you doing today, Dave? Great, man. How can we help?

(someone): Um, so me and my wife, we are 22 years old. We just got married last year. She's graduated college in December. Um, so now we're having $25,000 of student loans. Um, we are in the process of saving up for a vehicle with the intentions of paying cash next year and starting a family. Um, do I work to pay those student loans off now instead of saving for the vehicle or do I pay the payment? which we're not doing until October, but obviously we are starting now to getting paid off sooner. And keep saving for the vehicle, or what do you suggest?

(someone): I'd take it one thing at a time, and I would start with the debt. I'm assuming you both have vehicles now, right? The other vehicle would just be an upgrade?

(someone): Yes, ma'am, to a family vehicle, yes.

(someone): Yeah, I would focus on paying off this debt. How much do you guys earn?

(someone): I did $62,000 last year gross. We'll do about $130,000 this year combined.

(someone): Okay, so you can pay this off in a year.

(someone): That's gross. That's gross. Yeah.

(someone): Yeah.

(someone): And I mean, we have our three month emergency fund.

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Dave Reacts to the F.I.R.E. Movement (Hour 3)

The Ramsey Show

(someone): He told me, you know, he realized how much I hated my job and you know, gave me the question, where do you see yourself in five years? And that was just like a really eye-opening moment for me. And I got a new job. Our starting income was before I got that new job. And, you know,

Dave Ramsey: So you got a job you liked more that paid more. Yes. Of course. That's the way it's supposed to work.

(someone): And then what happened was that he was just a little too relaxed about me.

(someone): Relieved. Relieved. Thank you.

(someone): Relieved about me getting a new job. And I was just like, what's this about? Are we okay? And I was just like, why are you so relieved about getting a couple of hundred dollars extra a month? and that's when he, whenever we started talking about.

Dave Ramsey: Oh, he showed you the budget then.

(someone): So there was underlying, you were already having underlying stress about the money.

(someone): Well, budget or lack thereof.

(someone): He told me the other day, every time he watched the office, that part where he declares bankruptcy, he got so stressed about it.

Dave Ramsey: Bankruptcy, that's not how it works.

(someone): He was so stressed about it and I was just like, and we weren't talking about it at the time and so.

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Dave Reacts to the F.I.R.E. Movement (Hour 3)

The Ramsey Show

(someone): Yeah.

(someone): And I mean, we have our three month emergency fund. We have about 12 grand in emergency fund. And I mean, we both have retirements going out of a Roth IRA and whatnot that I invest in.

(someone): So, so if you really wanted to clear this quickly, if you really wanted to clear this quickly, you would walk through the steps and you'd take that 12 K down to one K, throw that at the student loans and then cashflow the rest.

Dave Ramsey: You can pay this off and you would stop adding to your retirement temporary. Yeah, that's right. Temporarily.

(someone): It's only going to be a couple of months, but you're going to get that. How, what percentage are you investing?

Dave Ramsey: He's gone. Doesn't matter.

(someone): That's all right. Whatever your 5%, 7%, all that's going back into your cashflow. So you can, that's more money that you're throwing at this debt. You guys are going to be done with this in a couple of months.

Dave Ramsey: Yeah. If you focus on it, if you don't, you're going to keep it around like a pet. Right. And that's the problem with student loans. People think they're harmless, but they, um, they grow up and take over the house.

(someone): There are people, Dave, that with $25,000 of student loan debt that are waiting 20 years to have it paid off by the government.

Dave Ramsey: And they're going to be so disappointed.

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Dave Reacts to the F.I.R.E. Movement (Hour 3)

The Ramsey Show

Dave Ramsey: Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, broadcasting from the pods, moving, and storage studios, it's the Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create actual amazing relationships. Jay Washall, Ramsey personality, is my co-host today. Open phones at 888-825-5225. Eunice starts off this hour in Philadelphia. Hi, Eunice, how are you?

(someone): Hi Dave and Jay, thanks for taking my call. Sure, what's up? Okay, so I have a dilemma. My husband, he's only 50 years old and he was deciding to retire. He's only 50 years old.

(someone): So he's only 50 years old. Are you worried about him just not having anything to do or are you married about the money? Both.

Dave Ramsey: What does he do?

(someone): He's in IT. He's a computer programmer.

Dave Ramsey: Why does he want to retire at 50?

(someone): He thinks he's ready. I think he wants to join the flyer movement.

(someone): the fire movement. So that is financially independent, retire early, which a lot of people are into now for anybody who doesn't know. And it's this idea of having a certain amount set aside. I mean, it's a retirement plan, but it's all about retiring early.

Dave Ramsey: So retiring early would presuppose that you hate your job. Okay, I'm 62.

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Dave Reacts to the F.I.R.E. Movement (Hour 3)

The Ramsey Show

Dave Ramsey: You'll have 200 and something thousand to put down, plus or minus being debt free, plus or minus having your three to six month emergency fund in place.

(someone): That's right. Yeah. That's sad. That's tough. 22 years is a long time. Yeah. And I love that advice to just slow down and cause what you said is true. What you do in those first few months is radically different than what you would do to two years from now, a year from now.

Dave Ramsey: Yeah. It's just, it's a, it's the same as true if you lose a spouse.

(someone): Yeah.

Dave Ramsey: I mean it's I mean obviously it's a different scenario but in a different kind of pain but it's still making big personal financial decisions while in pain is not recommended. You're not thinking straight. None of us would be. None of us would be. I told Sharon if she leaves I'm going with her.

(someone): I also think in those divorce situations, I also think in those situations of divorce, when there's kids involved, you know, there's this rush to get a sense of home quickly, you know, to kind of like, okay, like, let me make sure I get a place where everybody feels like they can come. I have them, you know, on every other weekend, I want to make sure they feel at home and you know, I get that, but taking that time is important.

Dave Ramsey: Yep. Michael's in Cincinnati. Michael, what's up?

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Dave Reacts to the F.I.R.E. Movement (Hour 3)

The Ramsey Show

Dave Ramsey: Yes. But that requires keeping your lifestyle low and your assets up.

(someone): And I think really the crux of that is when you, when we talk about this all the time, when you become debt free, it does change the way you work because you're no longer working simply because you have to pay bills simply because you have to prop up a lifestyle. You start to decide what you really enjoy doing, what you'd really like to spend your time doing, what you, what matters to you putting your effort towards. And that is something that I think is very noble. Um, as opposed to just saying, I don't want to work anymore.

Dave Ramsey: Right. So I can come alongside sacrificing to win. I can come alongside piling up a big old pile of assets, prospering. I can come alongside becoming successful financially. To the extent you want to do that, you got me on your team. You got the Ramsey folks on your team. But I will tell you as an old guy, you're not going to become independent. You're going to discover. It's quite the opposite that you're more interdependent than ever before You cannot escape if you're not the Unabomber and even he didn't escape. Okay, so you you really aren't you know, there's not this mythology I'm gonna pile up a bunch of cash and move to Costa Rica. Nobody's ever gonna see me again. Yeah, but you have no humans in your life and that know you and love you. Where's your family?

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Dave Reacts to the F.I.R.E. Movement (Hour 3)

The Ramsey Show

Dave Ramsey: So retiring early would presuppose that you hate your job. Okay, I'm 62. I was just talking to somebody a while ago. I do not plan to retire, ever. And I've got millions of dollars. You know why? Because I love doing this. I'm going to come on here so long that I don't make sense anymore.

(someone): Does he plan... He wants to get to another field.

Dave Ramsey: Okay, then he's not retiring. He's changing careers.

(someone): Yeah, but there's no guarantee on income.

Dave Ramsey: There's no guarantee on income on anything.

(someone): Is he going into business for himself? Is that what it is?

(someone): He wants to manage our finances.

Dave Ramsey: That's his career?

(someone): Well, that's what he wants to move into.

Dave Ramsey: So how much money do you guys have? What's your net worth?

(someone): Um, our net worth is about, let me just check this, um, about 3.8. I'm sorry?

(someone): 800,000. Oh, $3.8 million.

Dave Ramsey: Okay. Yeah. It does not a full time job to manage $3.8 million. That's what I'm saying. Not even close. It's not even a part time job.

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Dave Reacts to the F.I.R.E. Movement (Hour 3)

The Ramsey Show

Dave Ramsey: It'll be the money will be here and it won't show up mysteriously. He'll give us the way to make the profit to do it. It might show up mysteriously, but that seldom happens. Very rare. And that's why they call it miracle because it's seldom. Yeah, and I haven't really lived my life from miracle to miracle. I've lived my life from production to production, but God gave me two hands, a mind, a work ethic, energy, boundless energy to work.

(someone): Pray like it all depends on God, work like it all depends on you.

Dave Ramsey: Exactly. And so, you know, when you're talking about financial independence, you need to think about independent from what? Because I've never, I believe in becoming wealthy, but I don't know if you ever really become independent. As a matter of fact, you might become more dependent because I'm convinced the more stuff you own, the more repairman you have to know. I mean you're you're more interdependent the bigger your footprint is Mo money mo problems. Yeah. Yeah, it is in that sense or more responsibility Yeah for sure, you know, and so more you know, and you see things you never saw before you feel a responsibility towards Folk that that are struggling that you never felt before because you're able to do something about it and So, you know Don't know much about this fire movement, but if it if it has to do with I want to pile up a bunch of money So I don't have to do anything. Yes, then that's the exact opposite of what we teach.

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Dave Reacts to the F.I.R.E. Movement (Hour 3)

The Ramsey Show

Dave Ramsey: Bankruptcy, that's not how it works.

(someone): He was so stressed about it and I was just like, and we weren't talking about it at the time and so. He was gonna man up and carry it.

Dave Ramsey: Wasn't working though.

(someone): Yeah, and so we finally kind of, we were just like, well, we're both in debt, like so much money, we might as well do something about it. And then I feel like I finally convinced him that, you know, we can do this, we can pay this off, this is how we do it. How'd you find us? I've been an on and off listener up until that point for the last probably like 10 years.

Dave Ramsey: So we were hovering in the mist.

(someone): Yeah, exactly. So he knew that you guys had a problem and needed to solve it and you were like, I think I have the solution. Yes. Cool, cool, cool. And was that, so it was listening to the show, did you get plugged into FPU?

(someone): We, um, I found a, um, a certified coach or, um, Ramsey coach.

(someone): Thank you. Shout out to Chance Jackson with Astrolabe Financial.

(someone): Way to go Chance. We had monthly, um, coaching sessions through Zoom. We did them on our lunch break. and he really just showed us that we can do this and we told him that this is the goal of being here and coming to see Uncle Dave.

(someone): Hey, I have a question.

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Dave Reacts to the F.I.R.E. Movement (Hour 3)

The Ramsey Show

Dave Ramsey: Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, broadcasting from the pods, moving, and storage studios, it's the Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create actual amazing relationships. Jay Washall, Ramsey personality, is my co-host today. Open phones at 888-825-5225. Eunice starts off this hour in Philadelphia. Hi, Eunice, how are you?

(someone): Hi Dave and Jay, thanks for taking my call. Sure, what's up? Okay, so I have a dilemma. My husband, he's only 50 years old and he was deciding to retire. He's only 50 years old.

(someone): So he's only 50 years old. Are you worried about him just not having anything to do or are you married about the money? Both.

Dave Ramsey: What does he do?

(someone): He's in IT. He's a computer programmer.

Dave Ramsey: Why does he want to retire at 50?

(someone): He thinks he's ready. I think he wants to join the flyer movement.

(someone): the fire movement. So that is financially independent, retire early, which a lot of people are into now for anybody who doesn't know. And it's this idea of having a certain amount set aside. I mean, it's a retirement plan, but it's all about retiring early.

Dave Ramsey: So retiring early would presuppose that you hate your job. Okay, I'm 62.

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Dave Reacts to the F.I.R.E. Movement (Hour 3)

The Ramsey Show

(someone): So we knew that they weren't wasn't going to happen.

Dave Ramsey: So what we were going to do, but it's in the wrong way.

(someone): yeah what we were gonna do was I wasn't able to make my last $10,000 because they had forgiven it and it wasn't there but I couldn't get a paid-in-full letter they wouldn't send it oh wow so what we did was we were prepared to put that back so as soon as the ability a balance was available it was there already okay very good perfect timing well done good job guys how's it feel to be free amazing yep

Dave Ramsey: More than anything else, you feel like you got control now. Yeah, we do. And now you're working together because you weren't before.

(someone): You get out of bad habits. It's, um, you know, Thomas soul said that today's problems are awesome. All usually a result of yesterday's solutions. So, so when you come in and say, well, I'll just put that on a credit card. I'll just get a loan. I'll do whatever. No, because now it's today's problem.

Dave Ramsey: mm-hmm Wow amazing well done you two all right now that you're experts you did it you actually did it it's not a theory what do you tell people the key to getting out of debt is work together just talk about it

(someone): Work together, get out of the victim mentality or the victim of situation, like what you talk about in your Baby Steps Millionaire book. That chapter really hit hard with me. I think it's chapter five.

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Dave Reacts to the F.I.R.E. Movement (Hour 3)

The Ramsey Show

Dave Ramsey: Michael's in Cincinnati. Michael, what's up? Um, how are you doing today, Dave? Great, man. How can we help?

(someone): Um, so me and my wife, we are 22 years old. We just got married last year. She's graduated college in December. Um, so now we're having $25,000 of student loans. Um, we are in the process of saving up for a vehicle with the intentions of paying cash next year and starting a family. Um, do I work to pay those student loans off now instead of saving for the vehicle or do I pay the payment? which we're not doing until October, but obviously we are starting now to getting paid off sooner. And keep saving for the vehicle, or what do you suggest?

(someone): I'd take it one thing at a time, and I would start with the debt. I'm assuming you both have vehicles now, right? The other vehicle would just be an upgrade?

(someone): Yes, ma'am, to a family vehicle, yes.

(someone): Yeah, I would focus on paying off this debt. How much do you guys earn?

(someone): I did $62,000 last year gross. We'll do about $130,000 this year combined.

(someone): Okay, so you can pay this off in a year.

(someone): That's gross. That's gross. Yeah.

(someone): Yeah.

(someone): And I mean, we have our three month emergency fund.

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Dave Reacts to the F.I.R.E. Movement (Hour 3)

The Ramsey Show

Dave Ramsey: Don't know much about this fire movement, but if it if it has to do with I want to pile up a bunch of money So I don't have to do anything. Yes, then that's the exact opposite of what we teach.

(someone): It's all tied into that Minimal Monday. I don't want to work It's all tied together in that if you hate your job and that that's where you should change jobs That's where the crux is

Dave Ramsey: You should go to KenColeman.com and get a different job. Get something. Do work that has meaning.

(someone): Yeah, because if you hate your job, of course you want to get out of it.

Dave Ramsey: I'm going to work 15 years of my life and completely burn the candle at both ends of something I hate with people I hate in a toxic environment to pile up enough cash to escape when I could have just quit.

(someone): Yeah. and i mean these people with the fire movement their sacrifice i mean the amount that they're putting into investments i mean they're living on a quarter of their income they're putting so much it it's ok but i'm saying you know and i'm not going to retire you're not going to get free no you don't get free this out of heaven i mean you don't get free you you're all you do is you you're going to move from one thing to the next thing at all

Dave Ramsey: And so this idea I'm going to be independent. Now you can be independent of having to work for a jerk. Yes. But that requires keeping your lifestyle low and your assets up.

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Dave Reacts to the F.I.R.E. Movement (Hour 3)

The Ramsey Show

Dave Ramsey: Okay. So I think you guys need to sit down and say, what I'm really concerned about is, is that you do something not for the money.

(someone): Well, that's what he's assuring me. He's assuring me that he's doing something. But for me, opportunity cost is definitely a hundred, 150 K or more.

Dave Ramsey: You don't need money. You have plenty of money. You're not going to go hungry. 3.8 million at 10% is $380,000 a year without touching the principal. You don't need money.

(someone): Have you guys paid off all your debt?

(someone): Well, uh, we do have about 300, uh, uh, debt on two properties. Um, but that is, um, being rented. So the rent is paying that off.

Dave Ramsey: Yeah. So what you guys have not done is you've not, the two of you need to sit down with the television off and spend a Saturday planning and talking about what it is he is going to do next. Nothing is not on the list.

(someone): Well, he had mentioned that he wants to teach part time. Um, he feels that that's more rewarding than one than what he's doing right now.

(someone): It sounds like he's not sure, because we've heard corporate, we've heard managed financing, we've heard teach.

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Using F.I.R.E. To Retire Can Lead To Regrets (Hour 2)

The Ramsey Show

(someone): And the other one is moderation. Going, hey, maybe it's not good for us to spend everything we make and be broke. Maybe it's not good for us to live on so little that we live in a scarcity mentality on the fritz all the time. Maybe we should just be on a budget and assign some line items for things like vacations and things like eating out. You can do that once you're out of debt. And let's have a plan to retire with some dignity to where we can do some really cool things and take the kids on amazing vacations. And so I think our plan has a really nice balanced approach.

(someone): It really does. But, you know, for a lot of these folks, they're going to look back and go, I don't have enough money and I don't remember doing anything in my 30s other than working.

(someone): which, by the way, are some of your best years, you know, health-wise, physically, 30s, 40s, career-wise. And so to squander that by trying to get to this goal so quickly, I think hurts people mentally, financially, emotionally, all of it.

(someone): You make a good point. You know, your 30s is still a wonderful decade of testing. I'm in it. And discovery. I'm living it. And seeing who you are and really preparing for that second half of your life if you're blessed to have that. So, really interesting stuff. We're going to walk you through

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No Debt Or House Payment Make For An Exciting Retirement (Hour 1)

The Ramsey Show

(someone): Um, I have a, a first home, um, that's worth about five 50 and then the vacation home is worth about 700. My plan was when I retired to sell the one home and pay the mortgage off. But you know, with interest rates as high as they are, I'm just trying to see what's the best financial decision because I'm running into some obstacles about finding work after retirement, you know, from my current position, but they basically want to figure out, you know, what should I do about this $200,000? Do I delay it for a couple of years or do I pay it off now and let's stop the retirement so I can build up the liquid savings again?

(someone): What's your income household?

(someone): Uh, yeah. Household income. Um, okay. I make about 140 and my wife makes about the same.

(someone): Wow. So you're bringing in two 80. Yes. Okay. And how much do you have in a retirement?

(someone): Um, in, in, I have a, I have a pension. She's going to have a pension and we probably have about 1.3 in just retirement funds.

(someone): Oh, you guys are doing great. Okay, if I'm in your shoes, this is a great problem to have. Here's what I'm doing. You said you want to retire at 62. That's two years from now.

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Dave Reacts to the F.I.R.E. Movement (Hour 3)

The Ramsey Show

(someone): He told me, you know, he realized how much I hated my job and you know, gave me the question, where do you see yourself in five years? And that was just like a really eye-opening moment for me. And I got a new job. Our starting income was before I got that new job. And, you know,

Dave Ramsey: So you got a job you liked more that paid more. Yes. Of course. That's the way it's supposed to work.

(someone): And then what happened was that he was just a little too relaxed about me.

(someone): Relieved. Relieved. Thank you.

(someone): Relieved about me getting a new job. And I was just like, what's this about? Are we okay? And I was just like, why are you so relieved about getting a couple of hundred dollars extra a month? and that's when he, whenever we started talking about.

Dave Ramsey: Oh, he showed you the budget then.

(someone): So there was underlying, you were already having underlying stress about the money.

(someone): Well, budget or lack thereof.

(someone): He told me the other day, every time he watched the office, that part where he declares bankruptcy, he got so stressed about it.

Dave Ramsey: Bankruptcy, that's not how it works.

(someone): He was so stressed about it and I was just like, and we weren't talking about it at the time and so.

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We Have a Ton of Debt & No Retirement (Hour 2)

The Ramsey Show

Dave Ramsey: And that has given me the control of my most powerful wealth building tool, which is your income. And it's easy to visualize this. If you had no payments and you were in control of your money with a written game plan where you're telling every dollar what to do, you could enjoy life and also invest aggressively and not be broke because you make good money. That makes sense. Okay.

(someone): Yeah, absolutely.

Dave Ramsey: Cause your, your, your car payment is, is what? 800?

(someone): Uh, about 750. Yeah.

Dave Ramsey: Almost like I've done this before. Yeah.

(someone): Okay. Yeah.

Dave Ramsey: Right. All right. And so $750 and see if you invest $750 a month from your age until retirement, you'll be a millionaire. That's awesome. That's what I want. You got 20 years. So you'd be a millionaire. And so, but, but instead you got car payments. And no plan, no plan. And you just kind of wander along and go, I got some money saved, but what you did a good job, 110,000 in the bank. You're way ahead of most people, right? I mean, that's pretty impressive, but, but you kind of almost, you kind of almost fell into that. Cause it's not like you got some detailed plan going.

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Dave Reacts to the F.I.R.E. Movement (Hour 3)

The Ramsey Show

Dave Ramsey: Yes. But that requires keeping your lifestyle low and your assets up.

(someone): And I think really the crux of that is when you, when we talk about this all the time, when you become debt free, it does change the way you work because you're no longer working simply because you have to pay bills simply because you have to prop up a lifestyle. You start to decide what you really enjoy doing, what you'd really like to spend your time doing, what you, what matters to you putting your effort towards. And that is something that I think is very noble. Um, as opposed to just saying, I don't want to work anymore.

Dave Ramsey: Right. So I can come alongside sacrificing to win. I can come alongside piling up a big old pile of assets, prospering. I can come alongside becoming successful financially. To the extent you want to do that, you got me on your team. You got the Ramsey folks on your team. But I will tell you as an old guy, you're not going to become independent. You're going to discover. It's quite the opposite that you're more interdependent than ever before You cannot escape if you're not the Unabomber and even he didn't escape. Okay, so you you really aren't you know, there's not this mythology I'm gonna pile up a bunch of cash and move to Costa Rica. Nobody's ever gonna see me again. Yeah, but you have no humans in your life and that know you and love you. Where's your family?

20

Dave Reacts to the F.I.R.E. Movement (Hour 3)

The Ramsey Show

Dave Ramsey: So retiring early would presuppose that you hate your job. Okay, I'm 62. I was just talking to somebody a while ago. I do not plan to retire, ever. And I've got millions of dollars. You know why? Because I love doing this. I'm going to come on here so long that I don't make sense anymore.

(someone): Does he plan... He wants to get to another field.

Dave Ramsey: Okay, then he's not retiring. He's changing careers.

(someone): Yeah, but there's no guarantee on income.

Dave Ramsey: There's no guarantee on income on anything.

(someone): Is he going into business for himself? Is that what it is?

(someone): He wants to manage our finances.

Dave Ramsey: That's his career?

(someone): Well, that's what he wants to move into.

Dave Ramsey: So how much money do you guys have? What's your net worth?

(someone): Um, our net worth is about, let me just check this, um, about 3.8. I'm sorry?

(someone): 800,000. Oh, $3.8 million.

Dave Ramsey: Okay. Yeah. It does not a full time job to manage $3.8 million. That's what I'm saying. Not even close. It's not even a part time job.

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Dave Reacts to the F.I.R.E. Movement (Hour 3)

The Ramsey Show

Dave Ramsey: You'll have 200 and something thousand to put down, plus or minus being debt free, plus or minus having your three to six month emergency fund in place.

(someone): That's right. Yeah. That's sad. That's tough. 22 years is a long time. Yeah. And I love that advice to just slow down and cause what you said is true. What you do in those first few months is radically different than what you would do to two years from now, a year from now.

Dave Ramsey: Yeah. It's just, it's a, it's the same as true if you lose a spouse.

(someone): Yeah.

Dave Ramsey: I mean it's I mean obviously it's a different scenario but in a different kind of pain but it's still making big personal financial decisions while in pain is not recommended. You're not thinking straight. None of us would be. None of us would be. I told Sharon if she leaves I'm going with her.

(someone): I also think in those divorce situations, I also think in those situations of divorce, when there's kids involved, you know, there's this rush to get a sense of home quickly, you know, to kind of like, okay, like, let me make sure I get a place where everybody feels like they can come. I have them, you know, on every other weekend, I want to make sure they feel at home and you know, I get that, but taking that time is important.

Dave Ramsey: Yep. Michael's in Cincinnati. Michael, what's up?

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Dave Reacts to the F.I.R.E. Movement (Hour 3)

The Ramsey Show

Dave Ramsey: It'll be the money will be here and it won't show up mysteriously. He'll give us the way to make the profit to do it. It might show up mysteriously, but that seldom happens. Very rare. And that's why they call it miracle because it's seldom. Yeah, and I haven't really lived my life from miracle to miracle. I've lived my life from production to production, but God gave me two hands, a mind, a work ethic, energy, boundless energy to work.

(someone): Pray like it all depends on God, work like it all depends on you.

Dave Ramsey: Exactly. And so, you know, when you're talking about financial independence, you need to think about independent from what? Because I've never, I believe in becoming wealthy, but I don't know if you ever really become independent. As a matter of fact, you might become more dependent because I'm convinced the more stuff you own, the more repairman you have to know. I mean you're you're more interdependent the bigger your footprint is Mo money mo problems. Yeah. Yeah, it is in that sense or more responsibility Yeah for sure, you know, and so more you know, and you see things you never saw before you feel a responsibility towards Folk that that are struggling that you never felt before because you're able to do something about it and So, you know Don't know much about this fire movement, but if it if it has to do with I want to pile up a bunch of money So I don't have to do anything. Yes, then that's the exact opposite of what we teach.