01:25:03 (someone): And when dads become dads, they're far more likely to give up the things that they love to do that pay less. and do the things that they like to do a lot less, you know, quit that musician gig that paid much less and do something responsible, quote-unquote, like selling product Y. Yeah, that's also in line with the data that show that, you know, most young men, many, many young men abuse alcohol.

01:25:31 Jordan Peterson: Most of them stop when around 27, but that's also when they get married. And so they stop engaging in primary gratification. And that's another example of that delay of gratification, as far as I'm concerned, that ability or willingness to sacrifice.

01:25:47 (someone): Yes. And it's also part of your whole rule about the, you know, it's important to have stable structures, but it's also important to have flexibility and structures in part of it.

01:25:56 Jordan Peterson: You know, it's so funny that we, it's so rare that we can have a real conversation about this because let's say that the pay gap, well, you know, it's certainly not obvious what degree the pay gap is caused by female hypergamy, right? If men demanded of their dating partners that they earned more, than they do, my guess is that there'd be a pay gap in favor of women. Because men are incentivized to earn more, because if they don't, the consequences in the sexual market, but it's not the sexual, it's the intimate interpersonal market, right, to not be cynical about it, because it's not all short-term mating that people are motivated by, quite the contrary.

00:42:12 Jordan Peterson: And that's not surprising, because generally if someone drinks too much, especially if they've been doing it for a long time, it's best to avoid them. And so that was sort of my friend's experience, and he actually started to drink very early, as we all did, and became an alcoholic at a very young age, which was a A trap that many, many people around me fell into. Small, isolated, northern community. You know, not a lot to do. Very, very, very, very, very long winters, you know. Six months, eight months. Cold like you can hardly bloody imagine. How cold does it get here? What's the coldest it ever gets? Oh, God. See, cold is when you go outside and then ten minutes later you die. That's cold. I'm not kidding. Like, we didn't have town drunks. And the reason for that was that we'd have them for a while, but then they'd... They'd drink until two in the morning, and then they'd walk home, and then they'd, you know, pass out, and then that was that, because two hours later they were frozen solid, and then someone else would be next year's down drunk. And so, anyways, it was very cold there, and the winters were long and dark, and so there was a lot of drinking to be done.

01:22:19 (someone): I mean, many men are particularly inspired to mentor to a woman who's younger that is attractive, and many younger attractive women increase their caring about and their love for a man who they see as a result of his mentoring.

01:22:39 Jordan Peterson: Yeah, well, you know, across cultures, women prefer men who are about four years older. There's some variation, and that actually is one of the things that is moderated in the Scandinavian culture. So that age gap is less rather than more in the Scandinavian cultures. But that goes along with the genuine general tendency to hypergamy, which is preference for a mate who's at or above you in the social hierarchy or the socioeconomic hierarchy. It's really the social hierarchy, though.

01:23:05 (someone): which create enormous problems in different cultures. Like in China, when we do analyses of the dating, the most popular dating site in China, you see that women want, a very high percentage of women, I think it's in the 92 to 93 percentile approximately of women, want men who own homes and own cars. But of the people on the dating sites who are males, only a very small percentage of them own homes and cars.

01:23:35 Jordan Peterson: Right. Well, and we should also point out that women aren't actually going for the home or the car. They're going for the ability to produce the home and the car. Of course.

01:23:43 (someone): Right.

01:23:43 Jordan Peterson: They're using them as secondary markers for competent for competence, essentially. But and then they you know, you cite an interesting stat here, too, which which I thought was worth talking about.

01:46:58 Jordan Peterson: right? But that's easily foregone in the moment.

01:47:00 (someone): And the challenge of it is that the more, so boys who are usually doing less, young men who are doing less well in school, who are not the football players that are getting the 15 different women coming up to them and risking rejection, who are not the student body presidents, who are not standing out in one way or the other, who are not getting great grades, not part of the honor society, etc. The non-standout men, the ones that are Oftentimes, dad-deprived that have minimal postponed gratification and so on, and they tend to do badly in school or drop out of school. Those boys feel like losers and they know that women tend to not date losers, they tend to date winners, and they end up in the unemployed and what women are looking for, and much more likely to be in their families, live with their families, 66% more likely.

01:47:55 Jordan Peterson: Oh yes, that's another statistic. Young men between 25 and 31 are 66% more likely than young women to be living with their parents. Yes. And more young men are living with a parent than with a partner.

01:48:08 (someone): Yes, and you don't find women looking in their looking for men that are living in their parents' basement, or looking for men... No, well, that's just a joke, which is why you could insert it there as a cliché.

01:48:21 Jordan Peterson: Everyone understands exactly what that means. It means failure to launch. It means Peter Pan, right?

01:48:27 (someone): It's a joke. And those women are therefore more like, those guys rather,

01:10:56 Jordan Peterson: It's so intrinsically rewarding to do that. You think, well that's not like two lines of coke on a naked supermodel on your goddamn yacht, you know. It's much more fundamental, it's much more profound, and it's much more realistic and lasting. And it's a much more accurate reflection of the way things work, at least among reasonable people. And so what you do is you encourage, you encourage young boys, literally. You don't help them, you don't make them safe, you don't bother them when they're skateboarding. You watch them take their risks, and you stand back and you think, yeah kid, you're gonna bruise yourself, man, you're gonna cut yourself, maybe you're gonna break a damn arm, but hopefully only once, and you'll smarten up a bit as a consequence of that. You know, you're preparing yourself because there's tough things coming down the pipeline in your life. And there's people you're going to bloody well depend on. You know, and you better be there for them. And you're going to have to be tough, not safe. Give up safe. What the hell? Safe, life, 100% fatal. There's no safety. The best you can do is to confront that courageously and to pursue something that's deeply meaningful, right? That's rule seven. Do what is meaningful and not what is expedient. You look for meaning in your life.

01:26:45 (someone): The number one, the greatest amount of evidence is that involving your children with Cub Scouts is a very, has a very well-developed program for developing character, motivation, integrity, loyalty, a sense of making promises that you keep. So very good studies have been done of children involved in Cub Scouts for two years or longer. But this means not just getting your child involved in Cub Scouts here or there, And if your child doesn't like something that's happened, making sure your child gets back into the fold and deals with what, that it shouldn't be your child's choice to go to Cub Scouts or not go to Cub Scouts. It's part of your parental responsibility to get him there. Later to Boy Scouts, or it doesn't have to be Cub Scouts or Boy Scouts. Some Ys have good programs also for young boys. Mankind Project has good programs for young boys now for the first time. They have real good assistance to help boys with fathering. The boys clubs have some good programs with young boys. Get your child vet a male mentor. Try to get your child to a school that has a significant number of males at the age that your child is, especially if your child is very young. It's very important that a child not go from a mom-only home to female-only schools because the child will start searching for an identity from somebody that's usually destructive, like a gang leader, that will give false identity. And so these are just some of many, many things. We often think that a child needs a male mentor.

00:08:20 Jordan Peterson: I think that joining a gang is actually a stepping stone to full adult socialization. Because what you have to do is move away from your primary dependence on your parents. and into a peer group, and then you have to learn how to interact with the peer group in a manner that makes you a desirable part of that group, and maybe a respectable part, and then you also have to be able to hold your own in that peer group, right? Because a male gang has a fair bit of contentiousness in it, there's a lot of poking and prodding that goes on, often in humorous guise, to see if you can, well, can you take a joke, you know? Can you take some hassle? Are you good for something? Are you at least, you know, are you someone that can be relied on? Are you honest? Are you someone that can be talked to? Can you be relied on in a scrap if necessary? You know, can you take a blow? In your life or even an actual blow without falling apart as a consequence all that testing goes on and and that's all necessary It's part of see because I think the way that human beings develop is that Well, first of all, they're children and they're dependent and they have their childhood friends and so forth But fundamentally they're within the confines of the familial group and maybe that's even a matriarchal organization that initial familial group maybe it's not but Maybe it is. Anyways, you're certainly under the primary care of your mother and your father.

00:43:19 Jordan Peterson: They'd drink until two in the morning, and then they'd walk home, and then they'd, you know, pass out, and then that was that, because two hours later they were frozen solid, and then someone else would be next year's down drunk. And so, anyways, it was very cold there, and the winters were long and dark, and so there was a lot of drinking to be done. And many of my friends were well on the road to alcoholism by the time they were 16 or 17. Anyways, And, you know, this gave, this disequilibration with their fathers gave my friends, a kind of cynicism, I would say, about masculinity. Like, I can remember it manifesting itself in a lot of ways, and I think this was, I don't know if this was particularly characteristic of the 1970s, because what the hell do I know? I was a teenager in the 1970s, and I don't know what it was like in other decades, but I know this is what it was like in the 70s. You know, we had Cub Scouts, and Scouts, and Cadets, Air Cadets, and you know, there were things that the community had tried to arrange, for young people to do, but we were really cynical about those sorts of things, especially if we were cool, and we were trying to be cool, and so by the time you were 11, 12, being a scout, that wasn't cool anymore. So you pretty much stopped doing that, and a couple of us tried air cadets for a while, and there was a lot of shoe polishing and a lot of marching around,

01:25:03 (someone): And when dads become dads, they're far more likely to give up the things that they love to do that pay less. and do the things that they like to do a lot less, you know, quit that musician gig that paid much less and do something responsible, quote-unquote, like selling product Y. Yeah, that's also in line with the data that show that, you know, most young men, many, many young men abuse alcohol.

01:25:31 Jordan Peterson: Most of them stop when around 27, but that's also when they get married. And so they stop engaging in primary gratification. And that's another example of that delay of gratification, as far as I'm concerned, that ability or willingness to sacrifice.

01:25:47 (someone): Yes. And it's also part of your whole rule about the, you know, it's important to have stable structures, but it's also important to have flexibility and structures in part of it.

01:25:56 Jordan Peterson: You know, it's so funny that we, it's so rare that we can have a real conversation about this because let's say that the pay gap, well, you know, it's certainly not obvious what degree the pay gap is caused by female hypergamy, right? If men demanded of their dating partners that they earned more, than they do, my guess is that there'd be a pay gap in favor of women. Because men are incentivized to earn more, because if they don't, the consequences in the sexual market, but it's not the sexual, it's the intimate interpersonal market, right, to not be cynical about it, because it's not all short-term mating that people are motivated by, quite the contrary.

00:03:36 Jordan Peterson: And so he's taken part of an old fire station there and turned it into a boxing club. And he did that to help primarily young men in the Moss Side area. Develop some some discipline and and to bring their aggression I wouldn't say under control but to learn how to use it in the most appropriate possible way so and then at the Boxing club there was nine people nine people other than me there was The person who set up the interview, someone that I had talked to a year before, and then there were two young guys, 18-year-old guys, who had learned to box and had ended up doing very well at it. One of them is the current ABA national youth champion. Another one was a Somalian kid who has disciplined himself as a consequence of interacting with this group and is now mentoring young people and there is a... young guy from France, and his name is Kevin Munga. He was an ex-gang member, and he turned his life around and finished his law degree, and he just wrote a book called, Young Black Males Have Potential, Your Color Does Not Determine Your Future. So, that was really interesting, and a guy named Rhodes, who, studying for a PhD from Cyprus, who did military service and learned during his military service that he was not only capable of accepting a certain amount of discipline, but that he was capable of thriving in the chaos that was part and parcel of the military training, and so... We had a really good conversation. There were some other people there as well. I won't mention them at the moment. It was a really good conversation. Because it was a real conversation. That was the first thing.

00:13:35 Jordan Peterson: Especially if you go to university and take a humanities degree. Because that was the whole bloody point. It's like, can you join the gang of those who engaged in this centuries long civilized discourse about the way the world should be structured. Okay, so we can talk about that. And these guys today. I know they were talking about what elevated them beyond the trouble that was part of their more unsophisticated gangs. The problem with getting young guys together, if they're 14 or 15, they all bunch together. It's like, well, first of all, what the hell do they know? Not much. And what do they have at their disposal? Like, I'm not putting them down. It's just like, well, what do you know when you're 14 or 15? Your time horizon isn't very long. You haven't got a lot of experience with the world. The probability that you're going to orient yourself in the Optimal direction is very low, especially if you're only looking to each other for guidance, you know. And then maybe you're more swayed by the tougher guys, maybe the guys who are more like bullies. And maybe not too. But there is something to be said for being tough over being weak. You know, even if it isn't manifested in its most sophisticated form, you know, there's something to be said about people who can stand up for themselves.

00:41:14 Jordan Peterson: They almost all had fathers, though, at this time, because the divorce rate was still fairly low. They almost all had fathers, but, and this was more in junior high, but they weren't very happy with their fathers most of the time. They were fighting with them. I had one friend who had a terrible fight with his father when he was about 14. I remember seeing him, it was at noon, was walking home from high school, and they were having a fist fight, and they were yelling like mad, And he, my friend, basically got kicked out of the house permanently. And he was a pretty good guy, actually. I liked him. He was a fundamentally okay kid, you know? Fairly mature, pretty solid. Didn't deserve what was coming to him. He ended up living with another friend of mine. Their family took him in. And my friend across the street had a father, and he was an alright guy when he was sober, but he wasn't sober that much. He was a bad alcoholic, and when he was an alcoholic, when he was drinking, it was good to avoid him. And that's not surprising, because generally if someone drinks too much, especially if they've been doing it for a long time, it's best to avoid them. And so that was sort of my friend's experience, and he actually started to drink very early, as we all did, and became an alcoholic at a very young age, which was a

00:45:49 Jordan Peterson: enlightenment in a pill. It's like, I'm afraid it's somewhat more complicated than that. But, so, my friends had problems with their fathers, for a variety of reasons, generally because they weren't attended to enough by them, or because their fathers had problems of one sort or another. But then there was a more generic problem, sort of with the cynicism about society at large. and it made it very difficult for us to participate avidly in the sorts of social endeavors that might have provided a certain amount of, well, activity, and also a certain amount of community. And like, I don't know, maybe in the 1950s people were just as bloody cynical about Boy Scouts as they were in the 1970s. Although I doubt it. But it's possible. It's possible, because what do I know, but... They certainly were that cynical by the time I was that age. And so, a lot of the time we spent wandering around, stealing cigarettes from the local convenience stores, and finding alcohol if we could find it, and sitting behind the fences of our neighbors drinking it, and driving out on dark country roads at night, trying to escape from the police, which Which was fairly straightforward because where I lived was laid out in these, it was a huge prairie, you know. It just went for literally like 3,000 miles, you know. And it was all laid out in a grid. A road every mile and a road every two miles. Everywhere, that whole...

01:08:40 Jordan Peterson: So they're looking at productivity and generosity, let's say, as markers for a suitable mate. Now that's not the only thing, there's other elements that go into mate choice, but those are two very important things. Those are relevant and important, and so, well, what do you want to do? Well, you want to encourage young men To what? To grow the hell up. Right? To take on responsibility. And so, one of the things I talked to these young guys today about was where they'd found the meaning in their life. And they all said, well, it was a consequence of taking on more responsibility. The two young boxers, they were only 18. You know, one of them really talked about the fact that he had disciplined himself. And that he wanted to go to college, he ended up wanting to go to college, and it was a boxing college and there's like only four of them in the country. And he hadn't been doing so well academically, but he wanted to go to the damn boxing college because he had a talent and it was being encouraged by some older guys around him. You know, he was having some attention paid to him, so he buckled the hell down and did the best he'd ever done academically and got into the college. It's like, good work man! Way to be!

00:15:23 Jordan Peterson: And there's something in that. I don't want to be cynical about that. But that's not the core issue. The core issue, I think, is the fact that In that adoption of responsibility, you find the deepest meaning. And that's really true on the mentoring front, you know. Like, my graduate supervisor, for example, his name is Robert Peel. He's still alive. I still work with him. And I went to his festschrift, which was a celebration of his academic career when he retired. And he had about 40 people there. They were students, mostly, that he had mentored. And it was an extremely positive event. And the reason for that was because Bob was a very, very good mentor. He gave credit where credit was due. He tried to develop people. And he didn't take... He distributed his ideas widely and was generous with them. And he taught people how to be independent and how to conduct themselves as independent researchers. And he helped them develop their lives and their careers as scientists and academics and clinicians. And he was really good at it. And he really liked doing it. That's the crucial issue here. There's a meaningfulness in mentorship that justifies the sacrifice.

01:54:08 Jordan Peterson: Very, very little. Let's go to social policy with that. We might ask, OK, in light of this, what do we do? And I would say this is what I've recommended. I've recommended to young men that they take that these are the facts on the ground and they're not going to change and that If you're being rejected chronically by women, or if you're terrified out of your mind about that, and perhaps rightly so, you should take a good hard look at yourself and see what it is that you have to offer. And so, are you as educated as you could be? Are you working? Are you looking for a job at least? Are you trying to get out of your parents' house? Are you taking the steps necessary to become gainfully employed, productive, generous, and attractive? you know, that tangles us back up with something we also talked about in the beginning, which is the criticisms that have been directed my way by men, which is, well, you're asking men to live up to a stereotype that essentially undermines and devalues the vast majority of them. You're part of the problem, not part of the solution. And your emphasis on responsible marriage, given the state of current family law, is nothing short of reprehensible. And so, you know, my approach is do what you can at the individual level to put yourself in the game, but there's much more to the story than that.

01:55:32 (someone): Absolutely.

02:23:02 Jordan Peterson: Step-parent elevates risk for abuse by a hundredfold, if I remember correctly.

02:23:09 (someone): Stepfathers almost always are never allowed to be more than advisors. If you do have a stepfather, work on that issue that I talk about in the Boy Crisis book on how to engage the stepfather as a real equal, assuming that he's a responsible and loving man. But if all those things fail, make sure you get your child at the age appropriate time into Cub Scouts. Children involved in Cub Scouts for two or more years have a very significant increase in character development over children that are involved in Cub Scouts minimally or not at all. Boy Scouts are a wonderful deconstruction of masculinity. They've really figured out how to bring out the best in boys. faith-based communities. Children who are in faith-based communities, make sure your faith-based leader gets your son involved in small groups with other boys his age and make sure he encourages your son and all the boys in the group to talk about their feelings and their fears so that they can see that they're not alone in those feelings and fears. make sure your children are involved in what I call the liberal arts of sports. By the liberal arts of sports, I mean team sports. Also, pick up team sports. and also sports where you have to develop your own skills. You're part of a team like in gymnastics or in tennis, but you're not interacting with the team all the time. Each of those things will develop in your son different types of skill sets. The most important one that oftentimes moms don't realize the value of is the value of pick up team sports.

01:28:26 (someone): And so these are just some of many, many things. We often think that a child needs a male mentor. Yes, a child does need a male mentor. Try to vet the mentors carefully, obviously, or get your child to a faith, if you're at all involved in faith-based communities, And even if you don't believe in God, God or not, get your child involved in a faith-based community where there's a good male counselor who has groups for children, for young people, oftentimes young people that are having troubles. the ability to be encouraged to express your feelings to other males and see that your son is not just having the, is not isolated in the problems he's facing, but there's many other boys about his age that are having the same problems. Getting him to be able to express his feelings about that, his fears about that, to see beyond, to have little experiences done where he paints a mask of himself and what the mask says and then what is really being said underneath the mask. A good veil facilitator can be a wonderful encourager of a boy to express his feelings rather than repress his feelings in a society that is... And then what we all have a need to do is to get out there and say something very damaging has happened in our society in the last 50 years. We've had, when I started this work with the government, with the Commission to Create a White House Council on Boys and Men, I started that after a call from the White House to say, asking if I wanted to be an advisor to the White House Council on Women and Girls because of my background with the National Organization for Women. And I said, absolutely, but there also needs to be a White House Council on Boys and Men.

01:38:43 (someone): And a woman is... And I think every woman will agree with this. It's almost impossible for a woman to love a man she doesn't respect. and there's I think it's not the opposite is true too but maybe the grounds for respect differ the grounds for respect differ and also um a man there's more flexibility with a man on the respect issue there may not be more flexibility in terms of first falling in love on the beauty issue women have their burden that they have to uh that they have to live up to as well um but the but on the respect issue It's very challenging if a woman begins to lose respect, she begins to lose love, and men sense this, and therefore they oftentimes brag or boast or overstate their potential in order to be able to make themselves attractive. We see this in so many levels, in the Lois Lane level. Lois Lane, she had no interest in Clark Kent, but she fell in love with Superman. And once she fell in love with Superman, she wanted Superman to be able to cry and express emotions. But the man who did cry and express emotions and feelings and sensitive Clark Kent, she has zero interest in. You know, women are oftentimes say I'm opposed to war. But look at the she's much more likely to fall in love with the officer and a gentleman than she is the private and the pacifist. And we talk about this even in high school. Most everybody's gone to high school and most high schools have football games. And the women are the cheerleaders to go first in 10, do it again for the guy that scores the touchdown or either by throwing the pass or catching the pass.

00:43:19 Jordan Peterson: They'd drink until two in the morning, and then they'd walk home, and then they'd, you know, pass out, and then that was that, because two hours later they were frozen solid, and then someone else would be next year's down drunk. And so, anyways, it was very cold there, and the winters were long and dark, and so there was a lot of drinking to be done. And many of my friends were well on the road to alcoholism by the time they were 16 or 17. Anyways, And, you know, this gave, this disequilibration with their fathers gave my friends, a kind of cynicism, I would say, about masculinity. Like, I can remember it manifesting itself in a lot of ways, and I think this was, I don't know if this was particularly characteristic of the 1970s, because what the hell do I know? I was a teenager in the 1970s, and I don't know what it was like in other decades, but I know this is what it was like in the 70s. You know, we had Cub Scouts, and Scouts, and Cadets, Air Cadets, and you know, there were things that the community had tried to arrange, for young people to do, but we were really cynical about those sorts of things, especially if we were cool, and we were trying to be cool, and so by the time you were 11, 12, being a scout, that wasn't cool anymore. So you pretty much stopped doing that, and a couple of us tried air cadets for a while, and there was a lot of shoe polishing and a lot of marching around,

01:10:56 Jordan Peterson: It's so intrinsically rewarding to do that. You think, well that's not like two lines of coke on a naked supermodel on your goddamn yacht, you know. It's much more fundamental, it's much more profound, and it's much more realistic and lasting. And it's a much more accurate reflection of the way things work, at least among reasonable people. And so what you do is you encourage, you encourage young boys, literally. You don't help them, you don't make them safe, you don't bother them when they're skateboarding. You watch them take their risks, and you stand back and you think, yeah kid, you're gonna bruise yourself, man, you're gonna cut yourself, maybe you're gonna break a damn arm, but hopefully only once, and you'll smarten up a bit as a consequence of that. You know, you're preparing yourself because there's tough things coming down the pipeline in your life. And there's people you're going to bloody well depend on. You know, and you better be there for them. And you're going to have to be tough, not safe. Give up safe. What the hell? Safe, life, 100% fatal. There's no safety. The best you can do is to confront that courageously and to pursue something that's deeply meaningful, right? That's rule seven. Do what is meaningful and not what is expedient. You look for meaning in your life.

00:06:55 (someone): Boys in general are much more likely to drop out of high school, especially in the United States. And boys who drop out of high school are more than 20% likely to be unemployed in their 20s. This is a statistic before COVID, when the unemployment rate in the United States was 3.4% versus more than 20% for boys. And so that's just the academic part of it. On the mental health part of it, when boys and girls are nine, they commit suicide about equally and very minimally. Between the ages of 10 and 14, boys commit suicide twice as often as girls. Between the ages of 15 and 19, they commit suicide four times as often as girls. Between the ages of 20 and 25, they commit suicide about five times as often as girls. and most people don't even know this, pay attention to this, but this is only the tip of the iceberg of the mental health issue. Boys are far more likely to die from drug overdoses, opioid overdoses. They're far more likely to be depressed if you measure depression in a way that includes male symptoms of depression. much more likely to enter into places that take care of people who have mental problems and so on. I started asking myself, what causes all this? When I first submitted the Boy Crisis to the publisher in form of proposal, I outlined 10 causes. And those causes included the environment and schools and so on. But I kept coming back to realizing that the hub cause of the boy crisis was dad deprivation, that the boy crisis resides where dads do not reside. And so that got me really thinking about that. So for example, boys who are raised by moms and dads together and go from an intact family

01:23:57 (someone): But it's also been because a couple of charities, Big Brothers Big Sisters and the pinball Clemens foundation. both of whom work with young men across Canada and also in the United States and other countries, they've organized opportunities for me to come speak to young men who they think would benefit most from hearing from me, young men who are struggling to find their way, who are having a hard time in school, who don't have parental support or mentors. So that's where a lot of the opportunity comes from, is people who, I guess, feel like my story does resonate or would resonate. I think a lot of it is people who also recognize the institutions they're part of might not always understand young men or know how to respond to their needs because, and this is a problem that you've tackled head on in many cases, I think they recognize the need to encourage young men to do well but don't know how to do it because the conversation around encouragement of men has in my view, been undermined and poisoned in many ways. I mean, even we have a prime minister here in Canada, Justin Trudeau, who, you know, goes to international summits and recklessly speaks about men using, you know, the buzzwords that he thinks are going to get him an applause.

01:25:11 Jordan Peterson: Yeah, that's when he was talking about the dangerousness of working men.

01:25:16 (someone): Exactly. Yeah, I know.

01:25:16 Jordan Peterson: I mean, it's absolutely appalling.

01:25:19 (someone): Yeah, well, when you and when you live in a country where that passes as leadership of your nation. No kidding.